Family of God: [Church_of_Christ] Re: Holy Spirit 3

Greetings Ray, ED replying

Ray: I beleive this passage refers to the final maturity and perfection of the church itself. It could also mean the maturity of the individual believer...but it CAN NOT mean the completion of the scriptures. That would violate the meaning of Teleios. The spiritual gifts were "in part", meaning what?

ED: Context determines the meaning of "in part" and "when that which is perfect is come that which is in part will be done away". You claim it has nothing to do with revelation and offer either the final maturity of the church or the individual. But let the context determine:

12:1-11 the gifts were provided make known God's will and to confirm it is God's will
12:12-31 the Cor. disciples had misused the gifts with pride and jealousy
13:1-7 when properly used the gifts result in loving each other
13:8-13 no one should become enamored with the gifts because they are a means to an end and once the end is realized, they will themselves end
14:1-26 the abuse of tongue speaking in particular has resulted in a lack of edification
14:26-40 use the gifts for their intended purpose: to edify thru revealing God's will

Back to chapter 13. Consider the following:

13:8 "love never fails"
13:8b "Prophecies, they shall fail"; "tongues, they shall cease", "knowledge (in context as a spiritual gift), it will vanish away"
13:9 Why? Because "we know in part & we prophesy in part" - another way of translating thiss would be "piecemeal" or "part by part"
13:10 "but when that which is perfect is come" (Arndt-Gringrich Lexicon: "having attained the end or purpose, complete, perfect") In context, "in part" is the opposite of "perfect" in the sense of complete. It is right there in the context! To go elsewhere to find a meaning, when it is right there under our nose, if to distort Paul's statement. Like an apple pie: you slice it and take a piece, "in part"; but if you have all the pieces, it is no longer "in part", it is complete, perfect!

Consider again:

"Love never fails"
Spiritual gifts will fail, cease, vanish away.
Now . . . then . . . vs 12 contrasts - "now" - an adverb of time contrasted with "then", another adverb of time
"Now" - different word, conjuction of logical conclusion, "thus", "abide faith, hope and love" ~ "we walk by faith, not by sight" & ""we hope for what we do not see" ~ Both hope and faith end at the 2nd coming of Christ. Once Christ comes again the element of sight will be realized and both "faith" and "hope" as used in this sense will no longer be needed.
Thus, in Paul's logical conclusion introduced with "now" temporalness of the spiritual gifts is contrasted with the things that abide: faith, hope and love, these last until Christ's 2nd coming (of course, love never fails). So some things will end (spiritual gifts) and some things continue (faith and hope) but even they end at Christ's 2nd coming. So the spiritual gifts were to end sometime before faith and hope end, sometime within our dispensation.

Ray: Again, I know the word quite well. Teleios used for the final completion of a project. We have to deal with the nature of REVELATION first. Until that is settled, the rest of this is moot. As long as revelation is seen as presenting facts, raw data, knowledge, we're in trouble.

ED: Revelation has to do with revealing information that leads to knowledge. That is what the word means.

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