[Church_of_Christ] Re: Holy Spirit 3
Greetings Kent, ED efforting
Kent: I'm not asking, "What happened?". I'm asking, "What did God promise?" If God promised "spiritual gifts" to all who called His name, why don't we see them being exercised today?
ED: What would a Pentecostian think? That is a good question. The 1st century was full of Messianic expectation and certainly Joel 2 was an important part of that expectation: the promise that the HS would be poured out on all flesh. But what would they think? Well, even Peter didn't realize "all flesh" included Gentile flesh until Ac 10. I doubt they understood but very little. But what they did grasp that if they wanted in on it, they needed to repent and be baptized, for the promise included them! So they got what was promised, just as you and I.
Kent: The possibilities as I see them:
1) God did not promise "spiritual gifts" to all who call on His name. Whereas I recognize this as a possibility, it seems to me that the text has to be manipulated somewhat in order to make this claim.
2) God promised such gifts, but then, for whatever reason, decided that He didn't mean "all who call on His name", but only "some" in the first century.
3) God promised such gifts, and has made them available to all who call on His name, but most of us have quenched the Spirit by refusing to believe His promise.
4) Other?
ED: #2 is out with me. God doesn't hold back on his promises. #3 is out with me, too. Because I have been open to whatever God has in store for me. Especially in times past, I would have eagerly reached out fur such. #4 I can't imagine what it might be. So I am left with #1. Whereas it may appear manipulated to you, I don't see it that way. I see it as developing as more and more is revealed in the NT until we get the full picture. I could be wrong, of course.
Kent: Don't take my posts here as meaning that I've decided which of these possibilities is true; I haven't. What I have decided is that the doctrine with which I grew up, that "we know" miracles ceased in the first century, is not a truly defensible position.
ED: This is where I am, but still eager to learn more and adjust what needs adjusting. The HS is such a big study! I, too, have rejected the "we know miracles ceased in the 1st century" position. It IS indefensible. The only biblical statements about things ending is that in 1 Cor 13 in regard to the "spiritual gifts" and that was the ones described in context, chap 12-14. And as is clear from comments, not everyone is in harmony as to when that took place.
I did once believe that prophecy in the OT foretold the time of their end as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD (Zech 13, Dan 9, and Mic 7:15. I am not as confident now as I once was, expecially of Zech and Micah, still put quite a bit in Dan 9)
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