Family of God: [Church_of_Christ] Re: Holy Spirit ministry

Ed,

Hey there!

Here's the first part of your post:

ED before : No? The ended when all the parts had been received and therefore it was no longer "in part" but "whole".

Ray: They did? The passage doesn't say that. This is the meaning of the Greek word "teleios", translated "perfect"; that is perfect in the sense of being whole as opposed to partial. Nope. Sorry, but this is the common misunderstanding of the term that allows cessationists to get away with denying gifts. Teleios has nothing to do with a Whole as opposed to pieces. A completed jigsaw puzzle is not 'teleios', nor is a house that is 'built' nor a project that is 'finished'. Teleios is a nature term refering to the growth process. A teenage boy is 'in part', a grown man is 'teleios'. A sapling is 'in part', a fully matured tree is 'teleios'. Teleios means MATURE, as in something that grows and reaches full potential.

ED: It is not enough to say "Nope". I can equally say "Yep." But I do so knowledgably because this is in fact what I wrote my Masters' thesis upon. I do know and I do have the evidence and will happily provide it, but will have to do so most likely as an attachment to you since the study of the word covers over ten pages of the thesis.

Now my response to all of this:

I was reading another post responding to you on this. They made a comment and had a dialogue with you and my answer is the same. You are basing your argument on the teaching that 'revelation' in this passage is knowledge. I believe it is understanding. Since we differ on the NATURE of revelation here, it is of little use to define teleios. A doctor's thesis and 50 pages of etymology would not help.

The definition of revelation that we bring to this passage is foundataional to interpreting the passage. We can not use the definition of teleios to solve it because we have to know what kind of revelation before teleios will matter.

This passage declares an end to a process that God began on Pentecost. It tells us that certain manifestations or revelations come to an end. We must understand each other's position on those revelations before any progress can be made. That might take some doing on both our parts.

Anyway, I will address the other 5 sections one day at a time. IF you want to dialogue on what I have shared here, go for it.

Ray

__._,_.___

Messages in this topic (4) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

Messages | Database | Polls

Participation guidelines: List policies are posted in the files area as listpolicies.html

We don't want to see you go, but if you must, the address is Church_of_Christ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com