Recent comments posted to http://ExChristian.Net
Recent comments posted to http://ExChristian.Net |  |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 10:21 PM PDT It's ok I get sarcastic a lot and it doesn't seem to go over too well in the written word. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 10:13 PM PDT Ivanna123:What if just the words of Jesus are true and we turn our back on the one chance God gives us to live forever in Heaven? Ivanna, You assume a whole lot in this one statement. 1. You assume there is a god (a bible god?). 2. You assume jesus of the bible, actually existed. 3. You assume he was at least a spokesmen for this god. 4. You assume he was killed and then came back to life and then went back to this god. 5. You assume we need some sort of "one chance" 'salvation', just because some 2000 year old 'book', says we do. 6. You assume one isn't permitted to "turn their back' on this tale of old. 7. You assume there is such a place as 'heaven' and we have some sort of opportunity to go there. 8. You assume that there is another life, after the one you're presently living. 9. You assume that the writers who wrote down the supposed words of jesus, actually knew what jesus said, word-for-word. 10. You assume all this, based on hearsay evidence from other humans, and not from this god himself. ATF (Who wonders if he missed anything?) |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 08:30 PM PDT Ivanna123 The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation, and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be believed only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance called 'faith.' -- Robert G. Ingersoll --S. |
| Posted: 25 Apr 2009 07:25 PM PDT Therapy? No, I think the drink will do the trick for now. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 07:13 PM PDT Ivanna123: "Do you wonder if the words of Jesus are true?" No, not particularly. I think they're too vicious and idiotic to be the thoughts of an actual superhuman being. (Personally, I think Paul is the author of those words... He was one messed-up guy.) Consider it this way: Would you really want to spend eternity with someone who would put such ludicrous conditions on admission to its Foreverland? "I don't want God to reject me because I reject salvation that only God can offer." I don't think a god like that exists, Ivanna. I don't think you need "salvation," either... You're fine just the way you are. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 06:06 PM PDT No, please don't take what I said as serious, I was just being a smart-ass. I don't believe in god, I was being sarcastic. Sorry for any confusion. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 05:59 PM PDT I'd be more afraid, and I am, of the religious and what they can do to you. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 05:55 PM PDT Hi Ivanna, If you don't believe in magic please don't be afraid of the words, yes WORDS, of the mere mortals who tell you that you'll be in eternal trouble if you don't jump through the same supernatural hoops as them. They're afraid of their own shadows. You know that no one throughout recorded history has come back from the dead and communicated in any way. Forget the Jesus flim-flam. Absolutely NO ONE has reported on their "experiences" after death. So logically only live people could have cooked up the book of descriptions, threats and torture called the bible. Especially as all the nasty bits are entirely reflective of our species inventive genius for very bad behaviour. Fortunately, a large proportion of our species is also subject to 'conscience'. Human conscience, not the voice of god. You are your own mistress. You are the one you will let down if you behave against your conscience and best inclinations. You are your own salvation. If you bow to the man-made dictates of supernatural dogma you're doing yourself, and your one shot at life, down. So relax and reflect on: What heaven? What hell? What angels? What god?? What rejection? PS: Re-read Kate W's testimonial and, if you haven't already, have a look at lots of others. Apart from some gruelling details of mental and physical abuse the overall impression is of people waking from a fever or a drugged state. Your questions of uncertainty seem to imply that you are attempting to struggle to consciousness too. Best wishes, Steve. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 05:55 PM PDT Ivanna, This came to my email as though you replied to my statement, but I don't think that is the case. Even so... Given to what I have studied concerning religion and mythology, I do not believe Jesus ever existed OR if there ever was such a man, he's too buried in myth to find him. Other mean, like Plato, I think it was, got a virgin birth story, but the myth did not stick to them like Jesus. The Jesus Seminar came to the conclusion that the majority of what is attributed to Jesus, he did not say. If you go into the Egyptian texts that date prior to the Jesus myth, as well as the Buddhist and Hindu texts, you will see there was very much similar stuff written, if not almost exactly word for word. Krishna was Vishnu incarnate, just as Jesus was God incarnate. Horus was the light, just as Jesus was said to be. Not to mention, Solar theology stories are very much like the Jesus birth and crucifixion stories. The list goes on and on. After all I have studied, no one can convince me differently that the Jesus myth was not rewritten myth, compiled from various sources, including and esp Horus. They would need to come up with some very strong proof that Jesus did exist and he did say all those things. I don't think they can come up with such proof. Does this mean I think religious texts are worthless? No, I think some value can be gleaned from them, but I prefer the solar theology stories. I also think no religious text should be taking literally or as the inerrant word of God. They are not. They are human creations to explain the unexplainable and to give guidance to the people of that time period. I do value some verses from various texts though, but no one text as a whole. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 05:26 PM PDT This is so true. I lost all my friends once I left the church and xtianity behind. They were only interested in me as long as I held the same ridiculous ideas they had. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 05:20 PM PDT Ivanna 123, What if the words of Mohamed are true? And one cannot forget the rest of the Bible. Jesus claims to be Yaweh, the genocidal dictator of the OT. He said he did not come to take anything away from the law. (Mathew 5:18) This includes laws about fathers selling their daughters into slavery, being stoned for lots of common things that go on in our society today like working on the Sabbath and leaving the religion of the Jews. Jesus said in Mathew 5:22 that anyone calling their brother a 'fool' would be in danger of hellfire, but in Mathew 23:17 Jesus is calling the Pharisees 'fools.' There are many contradictory things in the NT as well as the OT. 70% of the humans in the world are not Christian. Why would a 'God' condemn them for an accident of birth? Are you sure the Christian God is all that loving? Billions of people will be going to hell? Doesn't that idea alone make you wonder about it? Fear is not a pleasant way to spend your life. Why would you trust the claims of someone you have never seen? There have been many men who have claimed to be divine. What have you ever done that would deserve an infinite punishment? Hoping you will spend a bit more time thinking things through, Ryn |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 05:10 PM PDT Ivanna123, My situation is that I can no longer reasonably connect the presumed words of jesus with a historical jesus. First, it is not an established fact that there was a historical jesus. Secondly, it is not an established fact that jesus said the words that are attributed to him. There may be a few snippets of his actual teachings, but the process of separating the actual words from the words made up by believers and attributed to him is far from reliable. Third, even if Jesus said the words that are attributed to him how are they somehow attributable to a deity? What makes the words of jesus divine , and not the words of mohammed or one of the buddha's or homer or my ouija board? You could point to the resurrection event as proof, I suppose. But many of the same historic questions about the words of jesus apply to the supposed resurrection - there is no historical evidence pointing to an actual, bodily resurrection. You would think an all-powerful, all-knowing loving God who wants us to have a "personal" relationship with himself would leave better evidence behind to bring us into that personal relationship. My son is sitting in the same room with me right now. He knows his father. He knows I love him. If he ever doubted that, I would do anything in my power to convince him of my love. That is a father's love. What we get with christianity is a hidden god - a god whose love other people have to declare to us. That kind of just sort of fizzles into irrelevance if god indeed is all that his people say he is. If you truly are flirting with deconversion, I would say be honest with yourself about your convictions. Whether you remain in your faith or set it aside, never be ruled by fear. That way of living sucks. Go with what you truly believe in your inmost being. But love people for who they are and not based on their status as a believer/unbeliever. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 04:56 PM PDT Me too, Ivanna. I am far too fearful of disrespecting God (the King James Version of course) to live my life without apology. I'm so scared, that I breathe as quietly and stealthly as possible. I try not to belch, or make any unpleasant noises at all. I don't wear perfume, because I know God is into the scent of burning flesh. He scares me, but I only smile, hoping that He will think I'm happy. Are you as thrilled as I am? Thrilled, and scared out of my mind. Ivanna, He told me that you are a liar. Love, Clair |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 04:48 PM PDT Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us Kate. I guess your story demonstrates the true nature of most believers - you're not really a friend unless you believe the same fundamentals as them. It's more like the relationship is like "brothers" or "sisters" in a fraternity or sorority. It's based on a set of beliefs or a creed, not on the inherent worth of people as human beings. When you break the spoken or unspoken fraternity oath, you are no longer a brother or sister. True love and friendship are really irrelevant. I hope you have plenty of people in your life that cherish you for you and not based on where you fall inside some set of socio-religious category. Peace. |
| Re: Waking up - Testimonies of Ex-Christians Posted: 25 Apr 2009 04:08 PM PDT Do you wonder if the words of Jesus are true? I mean, forget the rest of the Bible. What if just the words of Jesus are true and we turn our back on the one chance God gives us to live forever in Heaven? This is what keeps me from becoming an exchristian. I don't want God to reject me because I reject salvation that only God can offer. |
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