Sunday, August 30, 2009

Recent comments posted to http://ExChristian.Net

Recent comments posted to http://ExChristian.Net

Link to Recent comments posted to ExChristian.Net

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 07:53 PM PDT

Great Post Matthew,
I guess what boggles my mind and is something I often quote on many posts here is that with all the evidence that we know, how does the majority of people in the USA whether it's part time for full time still believe this crap. I find it reprehensible that grown adults can't shed this tale and cast non believers into a fictitious place to be tortured for etenity.
That is pure evil and why I trust no one of faith.

I've also quoted on many sites that all holy books of all faiths should be discarded in the nearest garbage and aren't even worthy of resting on a dusty shelf for entertainment purposes. And I truly mean it.....

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 06:22 PM PDT

Very excellent article my friend.

"Matthew 24:30-34
"…the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky,"

" They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds…"

(The reason they wrote this nonsense is, because they thought the world was flat and every person could easily see his promised return coming in the clouds from any point on the flat earth, they had no idea that the world was a round ball at that time).


"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

(Another blatant failed prophesy.... many many generations have passed away since that blather of nonsense was written).


" Horus of ancient Egypt was born of the virgin Isis-Meri, accompanied by a star in the east."

(another blatant anomaly, the bible writers and editors of that time not knowing that a star gives off thousands of degrees of heat which would scorch anything that comes near it, much less following a person around is just as ludicrous).


"I could no longer let theologians and priests think for me…"

(this is very key, to let someone tell you what to think and believe just because someone claims to be a bibilical authority).

This is societies problem. letting a religious figure have power because he/she claims biblical authority.

The bible is a book written with the intention of manipulation and control through mental psychosis, and it has worked very well just as it was intended, although it was written for the purpose to be used only around the time it was written, it was not written to be taken seriously by people of intelligence, but with the insertion of a burning hell, people of today are afraid to take a chance and will gladly sacrifice intelligence for ignorance for the fear of a false burning hell.

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 06:19 PM PDT

And when i say mankind was the reason for suffering. Its Because man chose to sin. And choose mortality. Sin and Satan are The real cause, but man allowed it to happen.

Oh -- silly deluded whack-job christians using made up stories -- nothing but myths -- to explain suffering in the world.

Let's explore the many inconsistencies is the A&E myth to shed light on why it's so patently ridiculous.

It is not at all, clear, that suffering was caused by the fall and by satan. You seemed to have made assumptions based on recollection and declarations that do not come from the CONTEXT of the story of Adam and Eve. I suspect you are getting your information from a slew of varying people. The ideas and notions you present come from christian doctrine or perhaps from the reading of apologetics. The one thing I am sure of, you are not coming up with your own ideas, from the actual context of the story. My accusation comes, specifically, from your understanding of Genesis with respects to the Adam and Eve story. You have added layers of interpretation to the text and you don't take into consideration the original authors intention, which suggests you have not read it in awhile, for yourself.

I suggest you take a closer look at the context of Genesis 2-3

1. There you will find no mention of sin, let alone original sin or the first sin.

2. The serpent is never referred to as satan.

3. Satan plays no part in the garden, nor in Genesis, nor in the Pentateuch.

4. There is however a snake that god created, albeit it a talking snake, that was created as a "sneaky" snake. Depending on your translation the snake could be, sneaky or devious, but the actual Hebrew word, "aruwm", means "mentally acute", "shrewd", or "sharp-witted" -- not deceptive.

5. Nowhere in Genesis does it say the snake tempted anyone.

6. In fact, in the details of the story, the snake is not deceptive he is acutely perceptive.

7. With this perception, he tells it like it is -- the truth.

8. He tells Eve, she will not die the day she eats of the fruit and that she will gain a moral knowledge. Low and behold she didn't die and now she knows right from wrong -- What a wise and truthful, talking, snake.

9. God lied and said, the day you eat of the tree of knowledge you will surely die. The snake said no you won't.

10. Nowhere does god tell Adam and Eve, what will happen to them, nor that by disobeying him, evil and suffering would take a foothold on our planet, causing humanity to suffer in cruel and inhumane ways, which he imposed, after they partook of the fruit. Nor does it convey a utopia, where suffering was non-existent.

11. God does not tell them it was unacceptable -- he does not tell them why they can not eat from the tree of knowledge, he just tells them not to, but then lies and says they will surely die the day they eat of it.

12. I know what you are thinking, so I'll head you off at the pass. To save god's reputation of not being a deceiver, you will surely say, What god really meant, was they would lose their immortality. Nowhere, in the context of the story, is it ever implied, that god bestowed immortality on Adam and Eve nor that immortality would be their destiny. For you to imply such a thing, you would be embellishing the context of the story and assigning layers of interpretation. So, god, after attempting to keep his children from gaining knowledge of good and evil, now wants to keep immortality for himself and whoever he is referring to, with, "us", as the last step of protecting his divinity from Adam and Eve, and humanity. So now he posts a scary guard with a flaming sword, in front of the tree of immortality, which shows a god with NO foreknowledge, because he could have posted the same guard in front of the Tree of Knowledge and supposedly, could have averted the catastrophic effects, to begin with.

13. Whatever you call it, "punishment" or "discipline" the consequences -- for A&E minor infraction -- were neither compassionate, loving, fair, nor anything resembling constructive instruction. In fact god's action were more akin to an abusive, raging, father, who went nuts, punishing everything around him, including the snake and all snakes after that; he bestowed hatred between Adam and Eve and all their decedents, He multiplied the pain of birth, thus securing the plight for all women, and then, in a fit of misogyny and sexism, he further cursed Eve that, "although, I make you hate your husband and childbirth will be excruciating, you will lust for him and he will rule over you". And then, god, with all divine obtuseness, curses the ground, so that Adam and all males would suffer, with endless hard labor, just to eat. And if that weren't enough god allowed evil and suffering to take a foothold on the planet.

14. Also, why would an omniscient god punish ALL snakes for what you believe satan perpetrated? Isn't that like punishing ALL cops, because a psycho disguised as a cop killed a bunch of people?

15. When delving into the story even further, one can understand that Adam and Eve were innocents, in the story and because they had not eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge they would not have known of good and evil; right from wrong. They didn't posses a moral conscience, at the moment they disobeyed god and to imply they sinned and because of their ignorant choice, they allowed evil and suffering to take a foothold on our planet, causing all human-kind to suffer, is stretching and manipulating the authors original intent of the story. Again, nowhere is "sin" mentioned in the story and to extrapolate what these two ancient, innocent, people -- who without the knowledge of good and evil -- could possibly understand, that what they were doing by disobeying god, was wrong, could actually be considered a sin. They couldn't think about the morality of what they were doing because they did NOT know the difference between good and evil. If they did NOT know the difference between good and evil how could they possibly know what they were doing was wrong?

It's like an innocent child, little Johnny, who, while looking at the dazzling Christmas package and with the insistence of his "cunning", older brother, can't restrain himself and opens it, even after his mom told him not to open it, after she had left the room. Now, the mom comes back and curses little Johnny and declares, he will encounter pain, every time he breathes and at school he will sweat and toil and schoolwork will be extremely difficult, for the rest of his life and not only that, lil' Johnny, just unleashed evil and from now on all his relatives will suffer, for what he did, they will suffer in unimaginable ways, children will be burned to death, children will suffer for years with incurable diseases, His relatives will suffer horrible disasters and will be maimed, There will be blindness and deafness, brain tumors and leukemia, rape, murder and mayhem. The only difference with this analogy, compared to the Adam and Eve story, is little Johnny already possessed the knowledge of right and wrong.

16. If sin and evil had not taken a foothold on humanity how did the evil snake (supposedly satan) exist?

17. What a just and merciful, all-loving god; only on closer inspection your god is a jealous megalomaniac, who unjustly punishes a naive couple, because they made an uneducated, unknowing, child-like choice, supposedly, allowing evil and suffering into this world, thereby, cursing the rest of God's earthly children to suffer horribly. And what is even more astonishing, you condone, these egregious actions and love god for it.

Deluded foolish myths -- this a case of ignorant, gullible christians layering mounds of interpretation on scripture as to embellish and stretch the meaning of the context of the A&E myth to make it fit their warped world-view.

--S.

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 05:44 PM PDT

Rainekaine: "Only humans can love and show so much emotion."

I disagree. My cats show an amazing range of emotions, including compassionate concern for sick or tired people; jealousy; frustration; and yes, love. Their brains are made of the same stuff as ours, so I'm not in the least bit surprised by this.

"The Bible says the earth is round. Thousands of years before that was discovered."

Well, that's rather unfortunate for the Bible, because the earth is spherical, not round. (Earth as a flat disk is a concept borrowed from pre-Biblical cultures, by the way.)

The more accurate concept of a spherical earth is at least 500 years older than the New Testament, and may even be older than some of the books in the Old Testament. The Indian astronomer Aryabhata not only described Earth as a sphere, but estimated its diameter to within 62 kilometres. Other individuals who got it essentially right include Eratosthenes, Pythagoras, Seleucus, Plato, and Aristotle.

"The bible explains the rivers and streams and their cycles into the ocean. About the blood and how we would die without it. "

One doesn't need access to a god to figure out things like this. A soldier on a battlefield, or the operator of a river barge, are just as qualified to provide such information.

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 05:43 PM PDT

Rainekaine

A big explosion might suddenly create life. But thoughts, dreams, emotion. Not possible in my opinion.

...an uneducated obscenely ignorant opinion that doesn't add up to shite.

And im not gullible. I have studied many points of view.

You are gullible and obscenely ignorant. You have NO clue about the science involved in evolution and how certain fields study thought and emotions and how they actually evolved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_emoti...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscious#Evolutio...

There is no getting around it there are mountains of evidence (REAL, CORROBORATED, TESTED, VERIFIABLE, OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE) that have been amassed, in several, varying fields of science, including: zoology, botany, genetics, paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology, population genetics, biochemistry, comparative psychology, molecular genetics -- which ALL point to the inescapable scientific TRUTH: Throughout time, life, on this planet -- EVOLVED.

You have to have an open mind and heart. But you sealed your hearts and minds a while ago it sounds like.

Really? And do you have an open mind and heart about Allah and his final revelation of divine guidance and direction for mankind in the form of the qur'an?

No you say? I wonder what your rationale is? I would bet that the reasons why you reject Allah and the qur'an are the same reasons we reject your deluded beliefs.

And if those children died then its best they die innocent. They will be in a much better place than this world.

And yet your intelligent (sarcasm) creator god created them anyways -- knowing they would suffer egregiously for months or even years (some only knew suffering) only to die. Why did he create them in the first place?

I myself haven't prayed for them but you make a good point.
I will. And God hears the prayers of the righteous, and im afraid there aren't many left. Plus that involves miracles to heal them. Prayer doesn't make miracles. Providence is when God alters the world without changing its laws. You cant heal kids with brain cancer. But if I prayed to ease their suffering. That would be logical.

NOTHING you say is logical.

Now -- what I want you to do is go to your local Pediatric Intensive Care Unit and do what the bible says you can do.

Your "providence argument" is contradicted by scripture where it clearly states that you can pray about ANYTHING including healing and Jesus will do it.

John 14:12-14 I tell you the truth, ANYONE who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for ANYTHING in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus says that ANYONE who has faith in him can ask for ANYTHING and he will do it. You have faith in Jesus -- right?

Mark 16:15-18 Then Jesus told them: Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world. Anyone who believes me and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned. EVERYONE who believes me will be able to do wonderful things. By using my name they will force out demons, and they will speak new languages. They will handle snakes and will drink poison and not be hurt. They will also heal sick people by placing their hands on them.

Jesus explicitly says that EVERYONE that believes in him can heal the sick.

You believe in Jesus, right -- Rainekaine?

Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, WHATEVER you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

WHATEVER you ask.

Now I'm expecting you to go down to your local Pediatric Intensive Care Unit and PRAY over these children so you can alleviate their suffering and HEAL them. The bible is absolutely clear ANYONE and EVERYONE who has faith and believes in Jesus will get WHATEVER they ask for in prayer.

And this is not just for his immediate disciples -- it's for EVERYONE who has FAITH in him. Furthermore being a disciple of christ just means that you are a follower of christ.

You are a follower aren't you Rainekaine?

You know what the great commission is? Jesus instituted the Great Commission, commanding all present to "go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20a). Jesus has incorporated this practice into the very definition of being a disciple and experiencing discipleship. -- wikipedia

Well then, you are a disciple of christ.

It is your christian moral obligation as one of jesus' disciples to do what jesus commanded.

It would be a dereliction of that duty and a heinous injustice if you did NOT go and heal ALL those children.

Please keep us informed and updated of ALL the miraculous healings that you generated through prayer. You can regale us with ALL the happy stories and the astounding relief you bestowed upon the parents of the children you prayed for.

I'm sure this will make the national news -- what with ALL the children who grew back amputated legs or spontaneously regenerated new skin from their 5th degree burns, or the baby who was riddled with malignant tumors, with only days left to live, went into a miraculous remission -- the cancer just disappeared.

Or will you continue to offer up B.S. excuses and lame infantile rationalizations, why -- what I wrote above -- about praying and healing, isn't tenable; to protect your feeble beliefs.

Or will you finally come to your senses -- realize and admit that you can NOT actually end the suffering of these children by healing them with prayer, which is a devastating confirmation that what the bible and jesus told you about prayer and healing is bullshit?

--S.

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 05:20 PM PDT

Matthew, thanks for your painstaking Post....wow, what a lot of research !
In regards to your words about Jesus, I agree wholeheartedly. I remember the 1st time I read the bible, after reading " the words of Jesus ", I was soooo disappointed in him ! I thought him to be very Schizophrenic, at times mildly kind, then at times mean-tempered, spiteful and very impatient.

I think that it was during these days of reading about the " sweet Jesus, meek and mild " character, that the bells & whistles started blowing in my head..............that coupled with the complete absurdity of the bible itself, that eventually led me to dumping the whole mess...in favor of sanity.

Re: About : Charles Templeton - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 04:19 PM PDT

Chaucer33,

The words and symbols used to express one's conviction isn't as important as 'why' they hold a particular psychological conviction.

Some are just not capable of explaining 'why' they hold particular convictions, and not others.

Arithmetic is a psychological conviction, and it provides us with a means to solve 'concrete' quantitative problems we face in life.

I believe arithmetic is a fact, because I have yet to encounter a quantitative problem, where arithmetic logic failed to psychologically assist me in 'resolving' a physical problem (needing to divide a pie equally between two people).

Some believe with great conviction they have psychological problems to resolve, and then, they use their psyche to rationalize and justify their solution by creating additional beliefs - unnecessary psychological baggage.

A conviction held in arithmetic logic doesn't require anyone to generate psychological baggage.

Einstein - "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them"

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 04:10 PM PDT

<<< All accounts of his life and teachings are based on hearsay, and 18 years of Christ's life are missing from these writings. >>>

Great start, but the list of improbabilities in both OT and NT just goes on and on. As a number of people have pointed out, the one incident reported about his youth is only found in Luke and looks suspiciously like a passage from Josephus. The story has internal contradictions as well. If an angel told Mary about her son's special nature before he was born why did she forget only a decade later? I'd sure remember if an angel visited me and told me someone in my family was going to be someone powerful and famous. And why did he wait until he was 30 to start preaching, healing and performing miracles?

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 03:11 PM PDT

Rainekaine:Think logically why miracles and prayer for miracles was used

Well, these "miracles", otherwise known as "magic-tricks", were performed for the same reason they are today, to impress someone and get their attention.

Beyond that, these tricks were meant to infer that the person doing the "miracle", had some special connection with the supernatural.

There were no real miracles in those days, nor are there any today, of a type that would point to more than trickery and nature itself.

Please, get a clue!!!

ATF (Who doesn't think this xtian knows what logical thinking really means)

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 02:45 PM PDT

Matthew,

Thank you for your message. You put quite a bit of effort into your research and your message. Every person should ask themselves what they believe and why they believe it. I think it is absurd to claim to believe something just because someone tells you it is true without offering substantial evidence. Asking little children to make a "profession of faith" seems ridiculous when they can not possibly comprehend what they are being told.


<<< All accounts of his life and teachings are based on hearsay, and 18 years of Christ's life are missing from these writings. >>>

I think this is being generous. There is almost nothing written of Christ's life for His first 30 years. There is brief mention at His birth, again at age 12, and then again at age 30. That seems remarkable for someone who is supposed to be the Son of God...

Re: About : Charles Templeton - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 02:32 PM PDT

chaucer33: For all of the Christians commenting, your decision is perfectly acceptable too.

Yes, Christians...you are free to believe whatever-the-hell you wish. There are myriad Christian websites and churches for you to "fellowship" with your own kind. This privately owned/operated EX-christian website, however, is neither one of those things.

oh, BTW everyone has beliefs. I firmly believe that 2+2=4!!!!

Mathematics is Universally agreed upon. The existence of invisible, conscious, creator-beings is not Universally agreed upon. Theists cannot even agree upon which "God" exists.

Moreover, even if someone disagrees that "2+2=4", they can walk away without fearing for their "eternal soul".

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 01:59 PM PDT

I like Bob Price. He's a very intelligent and knowledgeable man and I respect what he has to say about religion. I think, like many of us, during the process of studying religion you stumbled onto what many of us have. It is truly an eye-opener, one in which we have to come to our own conclusions about it all.

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 01:46 PM PDT

RaineKaine: If i sound ignorant or stupid please let me know so I can respond with better words and more evidence to support my position.

What do you mean, "more evidence"?[italics mine] You've presented no evidence previously. Thus far, you've put forth your interpretation..i.e..your spin, on the contents of "The Bible" as "evidence" for Christianity's Universal truth-claims. You've further attempted to show that the redactors of the Bible had a foreknowledge of certain scientific facts "two thousand years ago", but you ignore all the scriptural "facts" that CONTRADICT science as we know it today. Let me refresh your memory: Does the moon give off its own light? Bzzzzzt! NO, it does not. Is the earth geocentric? Bzzzzzt! NO, it is not. Does a rabbit chew its cud? Bzzzzzt! NO. And on, and on...misinformation abounds.

Then you try to reconcile "Original Sin" with the following:

And when i say mankind was the reason for suffering. Its Because man chose to sin. And choose mortality. Sin and Satan are The real cause, but man allowed it to happen.

'Sorry, but you haven't overcome the "free will" dilemma. For instance, you use the word "man" collectively, when supposedly, only two specific people employed their "free will" in that infamous "decision" in the alleged "Garden". Please explain how it is moral and "Just" to hold the entire human race responsible for the actions of one or two? 'Listening.

Continues.... Im not going to ask you to disprove God either..

That's refreshing, because it is not the nonbeliever's burden to "disprove" your biblegod. The burden of proving a deity, or any other claim in the affirmative, is in the lap of the one MAKING the claim. In other words, it's not your or my burden to "disprove" the Muslim who asserts that the Holy Qu'ran is the Perfect Word of the Creator of the Universe. The onus of proof is in their lap.

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 01:46 PM PDT

Rainekaine

I was just typing off the top of my head again. Im sorry if it wasn't clear. If i sound ignorant or stupid please let me know so I can respond with better words and more evidence to support my position.

You silly deluded fool -- what you presented to us is abundantly clear, which is the same bullshit "proofs" that have been offered to us a from other dumb-ass christians a thousand times before -- but it only amounts to bloated bullshit rationalizations, that you simply settle for, out of massive ignorance and morbid gullibility, that in NO way serves as OBJECTIVE evidence for the existence of your personal christian god. There are NO "proofs" you can offer up that we haven't disassembled and/or heard of before.
Do....you....under....stand?

You are just regurgitating the bullshit you gladly lapped up from supposed authorities without ever truly examining it yourself and then you blindly vomit it up here.

In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing. -- Mark Twain

You got NOTHING to offer us except massive ignorance, morbid gullibility and crazy-ass delusions.

--S.

Re: About : Charles Templeton - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 12:41 PM PDT

David,

If lying is justifiable for the purpose of removing negative feelings or diminishing the effects of personal complexes; how do we hold religious leaders in contempt when they lie?

I think, the more educated religious leaders actually understand they are not employed in imparting 'Truth', they are employed in the art of reinforcing psychological defense mechanisms embraced by followers - and offering a psychologically affective outreach program [god].

Religion is a cultural phenomenon imbued with psychological influences, there are paths to alleviate the need for religion, but religious leaders have a conflict of interest in the matter.

Religions also have a habit of imparting and nurturing complexes in order to create and maintain religious relevance - take care.

Re: A Brief Guide to Deconversion- ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 12:28 PM PDT

Congratulations on thinking for yourself and not letting someone else do it for you.

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 11:52 AM PDT

Rainekaine,

Which version of the Bible should we take in its entirety. Catholics, Othodox Christians, and mainline Protestants have different sets of books in their Bibles. Which set of books is the correct one? Also, how do you know your interpretation of scriptures is correct? Does the Holy Spirit guide you? Furthermore, when do you suppose the transition from needing miracles to having the Bible took place? Some could argue the Bible wasn't really available until after the printing press was invented, because ordinary people certainly couldn't afford a Bible back then (assuming they could even read).

Re: About : Charles Templeton - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 11:31 AM PDT

No, the evidence I have had presented to me so far leads inexorable to the conclusion that ALL religious leaders lie.

They and politicians are of a class.

I would not lie to a religious leader to save his feelings, and for two reasons:

1. I have not met a religious leader worthy of love &

2. They are too familiar with the art of lying, so I would probably not get away with it.

There is a third reason, that the truth might just set them free, and even religious leaders deserve the opportunity.

David

Re: About : Charles Templeton - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 11:09 AM PDT

David,

I see you point, so in your example you choose to lie for the sake of love, depending on the situation; do your standards extend to religious leaders as well ;-)

Re: Logical Proof that God doesn't exist - Prayer - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 11:09 AM PDT

"Animals have instinct that makes them mate. They do not love one another as humans do. Instinct."

I don't have time to waste writing a lengthy response to someone who seems to think dropping a load of christian jargon (aka biblical gobbedy-gook) is somehow evidence of anything other than the fact that christians believe irrational things merely because they've been so programmed. But, I would like to challenge you to think and the selection I've quoted above is as good a place as any to start.

What do you understand "instinct" to mean? (And, no, I do not want you to cut and paste the dictionary definition of the word.) What is instinct? How does it work? How do you determine that an action results from instinct rather than thought and/or emotion? How do YOU know better than some scientists who say that animals can feel love?

Do humans have instincts, too? If so, how do you know that choosing a mate, setting up family and social structures, etc. is not something humans do by instinct rather than through some kind of god-given mechanism?

It seems to me that "instinct" is an ill-defined and misunderstood word that people often use in regard to non-human animals to explain their actions in a way that distinguishes the so-called "lower lifeforms" from humans that supposedly have been endowed with another ill-defined thing they call a "soul." It doesn't really explain anything but it saves them from having to think deeper.

Re: About : Charles Templeton - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 10:43 AM PDT

Terry, show me a 2-dimensional creature, please.

Posted by Christ at 12:07 AM
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