Greetings Donna, ED responding,
Donna wrote: This whole DENOMINATION (as it truly is) is the result of tradition of man and his self-imposed rule keeping.. It demonstrates what happens when the TRUE REALITY of FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANITY is not viewed and understood through its JEWISH context.
ED: This "DENOMINATION" you speak of evidently has traveled the wrong road - "tradition of man" and "self-imposed rule keeping." I certainly do not want to be a part of it or any denomination.
Donna: Are we really to believe that the modern Churches of Christ are the TRUE and SOLE descendants of the New Testament church? Where were they before Alex Campbell? WHere were they in the Middle Ages? In the Dark Ages? In the early days of the infancy of the United States? Were all of those poor souls lost because they didn't do, in proper order and with proper understanding, the "worship service" supposedly prescribed in the New Testament?
ED: As far as I know we haven't tried to trace a line thru the centuries; we simply try to believe what they believed and practice what they practiced in the first century assembly. We may fail, but it is not because we haven't tried. The word of God is the "seed" in the parable of soils. It you plant the right seed in any century you will get what that seed grows.
Donne: SO many things are misconstrued to be utter commands when they are inconsistient and a matter of opinion, not God's laws. I don't see how anyone, who truly examines the scriptures for themselves without being spoon-fed this church's propaganda, could come to the same conclusions as have passed on thru generations of pseudo-self righteous pharaseeism!
ED: It is entirely possible that mistakes are made. "We all stumble in many things" Jm 3:1. So please address what you see as "misconstrue"-ations, "inconsistencies" and opinions made into laws. If I have done this, I need to know.
Donna: This church does not even RESEMBLE the early church nor does it walk in the power of it. They more or less teach that the power of the Holy Spirit died out with the apostles. The early church had: annointing of oil for the sick, laying on of hands by elders, kept all the feasts of Israel (they were obviously still keeping Passover, for sure!) JOYFUL expressions of love for each other (greeting with a holy kiss); speaking in tongues to edify the church; prophesying in the assembly by men AND women (who are given instructions by Paul about HOW THEY SHOULD DO SO IN PUBLIC); enjoyed lovefeasts together (a meal). These are just a FEW examples. If you dare question a coc member regarding this, the classic answer is, "well, those things were cultural or limited to the first century". OH REALLY? WHO DECIDED THAT?
ED: You provide a mixed bag of things you perceive as demonstrating there is no resemblance, so let's see:
- "annointing oil for the sick" - has this never been addressed? It has been discussed and considered over and over. There is simply so little information it is difficult to get any consensus of thought. Most believe that it was a medicinal application in Jm 5 and believe the application of medicine today along with prayer is consistent with James statement. A few believe it was a ceremony and they practice it as such.One thing is for sure, no one ignores the passage and intentionally skirts it!
- "laying on of hands by the elders" - there were several purposes for the laying on of hands. One was to commission or ordain someone to a work or task. I have maintained that we should practice this. It was practiced among us in the past. However, those who would do the laying on of hands, for whatever reason, have not seen fit to do so at this time. I will ocntinue to urge its consideration. But one thing is for sure, the passages are not ignored.
- kept all the feasts of Israel" - a practice of the Jewish Christians because they were Jews, not because they were Christians. If you think they were intended for Gentile Christians, Paul says go ahead and do it (Rom 14), I won't complain! But one thing for sure, is thatno one ignores it or tries to skirt it.
- "greeting with a holy kiss" - I do! It is nothing more than a little hug (oriental style of greeting). I believe it is a grand way of greeting. The question is: was Paul commanding them to greet? This was already common practice of Christians and non-Christians - people greet people. The common greeting of the 1st century among all was the "kiss"; still the common greeting of the East. The likelyhood is that Paul is commanding them to make their greeting "holy" because of who they are. But one thing for sure, this has not been ignored or skirted.
- "men and women prophesying in public" - if someone had the gift of prophecy today, this would apply. But one thing for sure, it has not been intentionally ignored as if we pick and choose. It is conjcluded by careful Bible study.
- "love feasts" - there is so little said. One time and then nothing more than to say that they existed. The love feast may be a reference to the LS or it may be some other meal; we simply do not know. But I know this much, it hasn't been ignored or intentionally skirted!
There is no doubt that many of our members are sadly uninformed as to why we do what we do! Therefore anyone who is asked often has no real answer but some vague notion. This is sad and a commentary on our poor efforts at teaching. Instead of attacking things for which there is no reason to attack, why not attack us on what deserves attacking: our poor job teaching!
Donna: They pick and choose what is convenient, what is beneficial. Why, no, we really shouldn't have a foot washing service in modern times (even though Jesus expressly said that we should do this!)....but now, we have to make sure that women only pass the communion trays sitting down, not standing up, because that would be women in authority over men. And the fact that the book of Acts describes the believers meeting and BREAKING BREAD DAILY--well, that's just a meal, and of course that wasnt the Lord's supper! But if they met on Sunday and broke bread, that's different, so if you partake on Wednesday night, you are SINNING. INCONSISTIENT!!! Not to mention the fact that they all have squabbles within their own churches and factions over various issues they place on par with scripture and will not even fellowship with other c of Christ members over things like having Sunday school, one-cup communion or multiple cups, eating fellowship meals within the church building, helping widows and orphans(WHICH THE BIBLE STATES AS PURE AND UNDEFILED RELIGION!!! How much more obvious can
you get??)
ED: "They pick and choose" - is such a misrepresentation!! If I am part of "they", I can tell you I am very careful to try to do only what I believe was intended to be a continuing practice.
- Do I wash feet? When applicable I certainly do!!! Jesus washed their feet because it was a practice that came about because of dirty feet. Today brethren wash dirty feet when dirty feet need washing. I know of many such cases when elderly folks can no longer care for themselves and a brother or sister goes and provides them not only foot washing in the name of Jesus but other aid as well. Jesus gave us an example. It was not an example of worhsip. It was an example of humble service. We practice it where it is applicable today. One thing for sure, there is no picking and choosing going on, but a careful study of the scripture to try and pur into practice early Christian practice as it was intended to continue.
- "women only" - there are unquestionable gender roles in the assembly of all the Christinas in one place. Brethren are simply trying to conscientiously practice what they believe the Bible teaches. If you disagree with their understanding, that is one thing; but if you suggest there is an intentional disregard of the Bible, you are altogether wrong!
- "breaking of bread"- I believe it was a meal in Ac 2 and the LS in Ac 20. Could I be wrong? Of course, but I don't think so. Moreover, nearly all of christendom agrees with this conclusion. Moreover, it is in harmony with what we find in the early Christian practice immediately after the last apostle died. So it is not something that we have not considered or "pick and choose". It is something we have wrestled with and discussed and made a decision we believe best fits the biblical revelation. If you disagree, you are free to do otherwise. As for "sinning", you got many of us there, but not me. I choose to do what I do because I am trying to practice 1st century practice. If your conclusion is different from mine, I am not your judge!!! If other presume to judge you, they will answer to the Lord! I can't force them to do otherwise.
- "not even fellowship" - well, you have a way of spotlighting people's failings. No doubt about it, we have many. But it does not diminish the fact that there are thousands and tens of thousands of brethren who sincerely love the Lord and reach out to love their brethren and try to believe and practice what they find in scripture.
Donna: And they will stake your and my salvation on these issues???? I AM SO GLAD I AM OUT OF THIS CULT!!! Thank you Jesus for your lighting the way to the TRUTH!!!
ED: I would get out of any cult, cults don't represent Jesus Christ. I am glad you are out of it. I presume you are still a part of God's family. That will do for any of us.
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