Family of God: [Church_of_Christ] Re: The essence of worship

Clay,

Happy Resurrection Day!

He is risen!

> Ray here: Except for Jesus, Who is God incarnate, all religious leaders, including the Apostles, are fallible men. Although they were used by God specifically to establish the church, I see no reason to disregard all other leaders on those grounds.

> Clay's response: I guess I give the Apostles a little more
> credibility since they were inspired to write the scriptures
> and uninspired men have been debating and dividing from other followers ever since over which church is correct and which
> church is wrong.

Ray: First, the Apostles were fallen, sinful men who made mistakes. Their WRITINGS are inspired. The men themselves are NOT inspired. All men are uninspired. I don't even know what an INSPIRED MAN would be.

Your second point is the same traditional red herring that disgruntled church goers, atheists, and other people (lost AND saved alike) have used for years against church attendance. Sorry, it doesn't impress God. Personally, I'm glad they've been fighting over it for years. What kind of rank heresy would the whole world beleive about Jesus if they had not been fighting? The debates and arguments throughout the centuries have been part of the Holy Spirit's way of defending and protecting the truth.

> I'm thinking if we would all but focus on the Spiritual Kingdom
> and unite in spirit we would all be better off.

Ray: This is oversimplified to the point of being useless.

> I'm thinking for me to promote myself over some "issue" is the
> work of satan and we should unite in love and continue our dialogue
> as to how we can assist one anothe to grow into the likeness of
> Christ and the physical church will be just fine.

Ray: I don't know anyone who promotes themselves over some "issue". Perhaps I don't get your point. As for the rest of it...isn't that what we do?

> Ray continues:
> In fact, one reason the unity of the Spirit has been heavily wounded is because throughout the centuries, people have chosen the "Jesus and me" path instead of the "unity of the Spirit". And yes, I do see those two diametrically opposed.
>
> Clay's response:
> I kinda agree, but I think it better expressed as "ME" and MY CHURCH
> verses you and your physical church.

Ray: At least you admit to this point. Nothing receives stronger condemnation in scripture than the maverick Christian. A Christian without community is the best servant Satan can have.

> Ray continues:
> Don't forget, Clay, that when we decide not to listen to MEN, but
> to God ONLY and His word ONLY, we are still listening to ONE MAN for certain.
>
> We are listening to OURSELVES, the most dangerous person of all.
>
> Clay's response:
> I think I listen to the scriptures just as you do Ray.
> I am guilty of ignoring MAN when man insist we divide the body of Christ over issues we would all be better off keeping to our selves and focusing on the one mind of Christ that Paul pleads for us to do.

Ray: When I listen to the scriptures...they pass through my head and heart, and with the Holy Spirit's assistance, I try to come to a proper understanding of them. However, as long as MY OWN MIND plays a role in the process, I am still listening to men, and that man is ME.

You are not guilty of ignoring man no matter what you do. You are always listening to at least ONE MAN.

> Ray continues:
> And no isolated Christian who distances himself from MEN"S DOCTRINES can avoid doing that. We become the thing we reject.
>
> Clay's Response:
> I'm a bit confused of what you are saying here Ray.
>
> Grace and peace Clay

Ray: Sorry, this was technically part of the point before it. I'm saying that even when you read the scriptures on your own, you are still listening to MAN, that man being Clay. When we try to distance ourselves from Men's Doctrines we are successful only in reducing the plural MEN to the singular MAN. What YOU believe, by your own definition (and by any other definition) is still MAN's doctrine, because it came from YOUR OWN HEAD, even if the HS is involved.

That's what I meant.

Selah,

Ray

__._,_.___

Messages in this topic (92) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

Messages | Database | Polls

Participation guidelines: List policies are posted in the files area as listpolicies.html

We don't want to see you go, but if you must, the address is Church_of_Christ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com