Family of God: [Church_of_Christ] Re: The Melting Pot

Ed,

You're gonna have to try again. None of your argument are relevant to my points.

> Ray: 100% of NT worship was Jewish for the first 15 years AT LEAST, and
> combined Gentile and Jewish for 2 centuries after that. The Gentiles
> learned from the Jews. Our worship is western gentile with no relation
> to Jewish worship.
>
> ED: They contiunued stedfastly in the apostle's teaching.

Ray: The apostles were Jewish and so was the church. Your argument does not address my point in any way.

> Ray: 100% of NT worship taught doctrine only from the OT because there
> was no other.
>
> ED: They continued stedfastly in the apostle's doctrine.

Ray: Once again.....the OT were the only SCRIPTURES they had to teach from. The apostles USED the OT for all doctrine they taught. That was the point.

> Ray: 100% of NT worship involved languages we no longer use: Hebrew,
> Greek, and Aramaic.
>
> ED: To use another language is not to practice tradition instead of
> God's revelation.

You show a lack of understanding of Jewish worship on this one.

> Ray > 100% of NT worship was community based. They interacted in the
> service, Q & A, they discussed...ministry was brought forth from
> multiple people. We let one person do it all.
>
> ED: First, aren't we doing the same here. Second, if you mean their
> worship was not as we practice, show me. I believe we are doing the same
> basic things they did.

I read your response and my bottom jaw fell off. Either you are goading me on purpose (which I don't believe)or your hermeneutics leave a lot to be desired. Let me share with you what you are telling me. You say we are doing the same basic things they did? Ok, so, your church does this:

Meet every single day for several hours, feasting, discussing the bible, asking and answering questions, speaking in tongues, interpreting, laying hands for healing, prophesying, taking communion, and so on. Every single person who attends has the opportunity to share a word that God supernaturally revealed to them in private. Possessions are sold and the money is piled together and distributed to the entire town on a daily basis.

How is your church comparing to the early church so far?

There's a lot more, but my point is well made.

> RAy> 100% of NT worship was daily. Ours is 3 hours a week if we're
> lucky.
> >
> ED: I worship daily and those around me do too.

Ray: This traditional red herring is frequently used. If I take you at your word, and you worship daily, then your church meets a minimum of 2 hours every single day of the week. Remember, Ed, the context of this discussion is the assembly.

> Ray 100% of NT worship involved people who celebrated with joy because
> they actually believed that God did something. We choose to be sad,
> solemn, and reserved because we think it's 'humble and reverent'.
> >
> ED: I am represented by your first sentense and those with me are also.

Ray: First, I admit this is an experiential statement on my part. Second, outside of Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, I disagree. I rarely see church ANYWHERE, often including my own, where people worship as if they actually believe God did something. We are die hard secular humanists and embarrassed by joy and supernaturalism these days, as believers.

> Ray> 100% of NT worship involved the miraculous: tongues, prophecy,
> healing, and other spiritual gifts, which most churches today believe is
> over with.
> >
> ED: 100% - overstated and simply not true. "Spiritual gifts" were
> stated as having a temporary existence once their purpose was
> accomplished. But if there is some apostle around to lay hands on me, I
> would willingly receive whatever gift he would give me.

Ray: Another red herring here. Your response doesn't answer the question but it does show, once again, your willingness to use irrelevant material to refute me. The fact is that the early church was immersed in the supernatural. Whether we can do these things today is not relevant...the point is that unless we do them, we are nothing like the early church. Sorry, Ed....your argument doesn't work.

At least you responded, and you did try. But I still believe that cultural/historical context kills most arguments that ANY CHURCH OF ANY KIND TODAY is like the early church.

Ray

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