Family of God: [Church_of_Christ] Re: Holy Spirit 3

Greetings once again, ED

Ray: Thank you for pointing this out. Kent:I don't usually get into this issue because it is quite involved. nevertheless, it is true. Cessationism, at its root, is based on experience, not scripture.
Ray: Everyone who argues that the gifts have ended ultimately base their conclusion on one of two things:
> 1. They have never witnessed the gifts being used.
> 2. They have witnessed 'fake gifts' in charismatic/pentecostal circles and have refused to pursue the issue any further.
Both responses are based on experience, but neither is a valid evaluation of either experience or scripture.

ED: You are right on target with one and two. Why? Because it is a claim of personal human experience! Were it otherwise, it would be discussed otherwise! But your claim is for a personal human experience of some supernatural gift resulting from receiving the HS - so how can it be answered other than to discuss the scripture and our personal human experiences?

Ray: One must begin and end with the text itself if one is going to claim that the gifts have ended or continue. Any appeal to experience and the argument is invalid. The proof/disproof of gifts is in the promise of God, even if no one on earth ever spoke in tongues, including Pentecost.

ED: We began with the text and have stayed with the text. You claim the text means disciples today will demonstrate some visible supernatural manifestation of the HS. Your claim? You provide the evidence! Otherwise your claim falls on its face! It is that simple! Don't try to shift the burden of evidence on those who do not make the claim. The burden is upon you to prove what you claim. All we are saying is that we have seen no evidence in #'s 1 & 2. But we are also saying, "Where's the beef?" If McDonald's has the best hamburgers, if they make the claim, then "where's the beef?" Back up the claim! If someone says, to this point I haven't seen the beef, the burden of proof has not shifted to him. It is still with those who make the claim.

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